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19/05/2008, 11:13 AM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,705 Re: Photos etc I wonder Dek, if the airship you saw over Norwich was in fact the Barnes Wallis R100 and not the R101. The R101 made only one flight and crashed in France. I do not know in all fairness whether it flew over Norwich. The R100 did fly over Norwich however on its final flight before being broken up by the totally unfair orders of the Air Ministry after and because of the R101 disaster. The R100 flew thousands of miles of safe commercial operation as did the German Graf Zeppelin and Hindenburg ships until the Hindenburg disaster. This disaster was again unconnected to the basic safety of airship design. The R101 was designed and built so badly by the Air Ministry that they had to cut it in half and add an extra lift section before it could even get off the ground. It was rushed into use to keep up with the German ships and had no chance of success whatsoever. Sir Barnes Wallis continually communicated with the builders of the R101 trying to get the project canceled. It is solely a lack of investment that prevents modern airship development. Vested interest in fixed wing and airport business is far to entrenched to allow any such sensible competition. There are many benefits airship travel has over fixed wing aircraft. There is no need for large airports. Airships need to use NO fuel to get to operating altitude, (which is over 60 percent of fuel used on a fixed wing airliner). Complete engine failure on an airship makes no difference to an airships ability to stay aloft. Airships can fly with restaurants, dance halls and all manner of comfort. No need to cram people into little seats. Airships can operate from almost anywhere, including from the center of Cities. Just like the superior VTOL autogyro the Rotodyne, airships have been prevented from entering service and saving huge amounts of fuel and environmental damage, solely for the benefit of the yank and its copy cat civil airliner operations. One would have thought that Mr Branson would have seen the potential by now! Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

19/05/2008, 11:32 AM Scaramouche Joined on 02/04/2006 obscure Posts 1,174 Re: Photos etc Impressive research Equitator, aned thus quite beyond criticism. Proof - if indeed proof were needed - that in either celestial or aeronautical terms, You are undisputably, A Gas Giant.    Report

19/05/2008, 2:20 PM Harry Remmington Mk II Joined on 26/06/2007 Posts 520 Re: Photos etc  keith gerrard wrote: There is no need for large airports. So where are you suggesting they will moor Keith? At the moment there is an airliner landing at Heathrow every two minutes carrying something between 100 and 300 passengers. Now if we look at the airship with its ballrooms and restaurants it will be a pretty big blimp for each one to shift that quantity of people not sat in tiny seats. When it's moored it would have to have a 360 degree arc of movement away from all the others that were moored. Even allowing a one hour turnaround (unlikely) that would require thirty plus masts to moor the beasts to. And then you'd still need the passenger handling terminal, security paraphenalia, fuel (and gas) facilities, engineering, air traffic, etc etc. There is no reason why the actual airfield buildings could be any smaller than at present. If the market to travel at a leisurely pace wandering from ballroom to restaurant existed, the North Atlantic would be packed with ocean liners right now. In your own immortal words Keith. Dream on. Harry Harry, still    Report

19/05/2008, 2:23 PM Lionheart Joined on 24/04/2008 Posts 455 Re: Photos etc Regardless of the merits of carrying capacity and perhaps even economy, surely one of the deterrents to air ship travel is speed. Moving a large and unweildy Scaramouch - aka gas bag - around in the sky is a ponderous undertaking.    Report

19/05/2008, 2:47 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,705 Re: Photos etc At altitudes above 40,000 feet an airship can cruise at speeds equal to fixed wing aircraft. The larger frontal area is about equal to the lift induced drag from a fixed wing in the thinner air. Cruise with modern engines would be just subsonic. Supersonic passenger travel has proven to be of no real benefit and the on board facilities made available on an airship would negate the need for such desperately fast travel within the earths environs anyway. Of course the airship could reach altitude using NO fuel if needed, that would save a few billion tons of CO2 on its own. A major City Airship terminal would be a major undertaking it is true. However, there would be NO runways for a start. Airships can fly at zero ground speed and even move backward, which would allow much easier traffic control. Mooring with todays technology would be child's play. The over all benefits would reduce the cost of air travel by a huge amount. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

19/05/2008, 2:57 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,705 Re: Photos etc How many of the two minute schedules into Heathrow are trans continental Harry? I would replace short haul and some medium haul flights with modern VTOL craft based on the Rotodyne technology. No need to use high altitude on such flights. Doing so and using such craft for some short haul freight delivery would negate the need for any runways and also reduce the freight load on our roads and railways. Fixed wing aircraft are not the best way of using the limited fuel stocks, far to thirsty and costly to operate. Like you said though Harry 'Dream on'. They just ain't gonna let it happen. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

19/05/2008, 3:33 PM Harry Remmington Mk II Joined on 26/06/2007 Posts 520 Re: Photos etc  keith gerrard wrote: However, there would be NO runways for a start. Not 'for a start' Keith. There are no other space savings. An airship at just subsonic speed?. Keith you are such a hoot! Harry Harry, still    Report

19/05/2008, 3:44 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,705 Re: Photos etc Of course there are other space savings harry. How about there being no longer the need to funnel all air travelers to just one terminal.. Smaller terminals can be set up almost anywhere, because there is no need for runways. Organized properly passengers would no longer have to travel sometimes for twice as long as the actual flight just to get to and from the terminal at each end. As to just subsonic, explain to us why this is not feasible with modern technology harry. It would be far more up to date than the current antiquated methods of transporting people and freight by air. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

19/05/2008, 4:56 PM Dek Joined on 15/08/2003 Norwich Posts 1,048 Re: Photos etc I believe you a correct Keith,  The airship that I saw was to the latter end of 1930.  Maybe there are experts on here who can verify the number of this craft.    Dek. Laugh, and the wife laughs with you. Snore and you`ll sleep alone.    Report

19/05/2008, 5:00 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,705 Re: Photos etc Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

19/05/2008, 5:01 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,705 Re: Photos etc One of these Dek. R33/R34 both over Norfolk around that time. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

20/05/2008, 2:29 AM Equitator Joined on 04/11/2003 Posts 1,114 Re: Photos etc  Scaramouche wrote: Impressive research Equitator, aned thus quite beyond criticism. Proof - if indeed proof were needed - that in either celestial or aeronautical terms, You are undisputably, A Gas Giant. I didn't have to do any "research" you ludicrous little twerp. That was merely knowledge. You're looking more redundant and ridiculous with every sub-Frostian interjection you make. Do yourself a favour and sod off. Equitator    Report

20/05/2008, 8:57 AM Wibble Joined on 30/10/2003 Posts 501 Re: Photos etc Oh no!  Here comes the in-flight entertainment for Keef's Gasbag Airways Express to Dreamland... http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=qPvbf6RYApZ74hyfZ8HNkw%3D%3D AAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! It's a wibbly wobbly world    Report

20/05/2008, 9:24 AM Scaramouche Joined on 02/04/2006 obscure Posts 1,174 Re: Photos etc  Equitator wrote:  Scaramouche wrote: Impressive research Equitator, aned thus quite beyond criticism. Proof - if indeed proof were needed - that in either celestial or aeronautical terms, You are undisputably, A Gas Giant. I didn't have to do any "research" you ludicrous little twerp. That was merely knowledge. You're looking more redundant and ridiculous with every sub-Frostian interjection you make. Do yourself a favour and sod off. Equitator So. We'll take that as an unhappy, shall we ?    Report

20/05/2008, 9:44 AM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,705 Re: Photos etc You guys!!!!!! Why don't you get together and visit Wibble. Break open a bottle of Malt with him before that sewerage outlet fries his brains for good. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

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