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17/07/2008, 3:43 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 9,890 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Are there any tiny life jackets available for these swallow tails then gardener? Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

17/07/2008, 5:11 PM gardener Joined on 04/10/2007 Posts 1,051 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Butterflies Keith, though I daresay the caterpillars mightn't take to the water. But this publicity can only be a good thing-preserving what swallowtails like isn't going to affect boating or tourism or even farming I think as the milk parsley ( which in a duh moment I referred to as milkweed) grows in damp places rather than in the water or on drier farm land. And the more publicity about the environmental value of the area might keep the government on its toes when it comes to flood defences.    Report

17/07/2008, 8:39 PM Lionheart Joined on 24/04/2008 Posts 299 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. which in a duh moment You wouldn't have said that before the American show, 'The Simpsons' came to England; so you've benefitted from that import then?    Report

17/07/2008, 9:19 PM gardener Joined on 04/10/2007 Posts 1,051 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Um, nope sorry. I distinctly recall being at school and kids  hanging their tongues out and saying duh stupid  as school fads will go. Of course it may indeed have been an American import in that we had been studying Of Mice and Men and the film may have been on TV. Most definitely predates the Simpsons in my vocab!    Report

17/07/2008, 9:36 PM Lionheart Joined on 24/04/2008 Posts 299 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Mmm! I don't recall that in Of Mice and Men, I'll have to take another look. I wouldn't want you to get away with anything on this board By the way, Doh and its derivative, Duh relates to an action not to a fault in vocab  . So if someone says something silly it is not Doh, but if they do something silly, then it can be Doh; although, you twit, comes across with a little more meaning. Just thought I'd say.    Report

17/07/2008, 9:46 PM gardener Joined on 04/10/2007 Posts 1,051 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. To be honest I don't recall much of what is in Mice and Men either! We all have our own little ways I suppose and when in school our own little sillinesses. In the circle I moved in as a youngster,for a while the word Weasenham, said in a silly long drawn out nasal way was regarded as being amusing, as was asking How's Your Belly off for Spots? I dare say it was the influence of the Python team whilst not being directly attributable to them. Which has not a lot to do with Milk Parsley.    Report

18/07/2008, 10:25 AM john Joined on 07/08/2007 Posts 1,024 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. As you say Gardener,it will probably keep the government on their toes.I have asked the Butterfly Preservation group what their reactions are to the Natural England leaked report re Allowing the sea to breaCh the sea defences and returning Hickling Broad to a salt marsh.I will let you know if and when I get a response.John    Report

18/07/2008, 11:27 AM Jill Joined on 15/08/2005 Norfolk Posts 1,799 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. As this is almost a nature thread, I just wanted to let you know what has happened in my garden in the last couple of days. We have some Doves around here and it seemed they have nested in a Palm Tree in my Gravel Garden.  My husband removed some very large seed heads from these trees and discovered the nest with a very young bird inside.  As it could not be put back, he has put the nest inside a wicker hanging basket and hung this from our rose arch pergola and the parents are now swinging gently in the breeze in the hanging basket keeping their young nice and warm. It is a smashing sight, nature at its best.    Report

18/07/2008, 12:27 PM john Joined on 07/08/2007 Posts 1,024 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Was it a Jenny Wren Jill.we have had two nesting in our flower baskets.They have killed off the flowers but never mind.As far as the Swallowtail Butterfly is concerned I have had a reply from the preservation group and they are looking into the Natural England report.All I will say is,get on with the sea defences,get the finances and development sorted,get rid of the quango's and we can all live to enjoy the Broads for years to come.John    Report

18/07/2008, 12:38 PM swampie Joined on 10/05/2007 Norfolk Posts 76 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Lets keep our fingers crossed then John, well done    Report

19/07/2008, 4:52 AM john Joined on 07/08/2007 Posts 1,024 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. At least the Butterfly brigade want to preserve the Boads as they are Keith,unlike the selfish R.S.P.B.who want to see them part of the North Sea.John    Report

19/07/2008, 1:15 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 9,890 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Yes John but both of them are living an illusion. Letting areas of Norfolk flood will not prevent major flooding in the near future and just spending money to maintain an environment for butterflies will not supply sufficient investment to built effective flood defense either. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

19/07/2008, 2:50 PM john Joined on 07/08/2007 Posts 1,024 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. The idea Keith was to get as many groups as possible to put pressure on this government to spend money on flood defences.Reading the news today,the pot is empty and now we have got to borrow money.The flooding problems at Welney is interesting,if that is not sorted Peterborough could well be a sea side town in the future.Not in our time but could well be in our childrens time.What a legacy to leave them.John    Report

19/07/2008, 6:04 PM gardener Joined on 04/10/2007 Posts 1,051 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Just looking at the report on the EDP24 about the Ouse Washes it looks as if the EA and Defra may be beginning to see sense. This is not what I gathered from people on the ground who see them as being as mule headed as always. It would not be so much the seaside John, as long as the sluices held the sea out but it would be a big big lake again! When the Fens were undrained Fenland was not saline but fresh water fen. My main bugbear is this. The spokes person said it would cost  £5mil to dredge the Ouse Channel, seawards from Denver and then claimed it could silt up again within 6 months. Surely they know if this is the case or not? They have dredged the channel before I distinctly recall seeing them do it, Dredging and Construction Company I think, when I was at school. It might even have been done since, so why aren't there records of how long it kept clear for instead of relying on guesswork. It is not  just people at Welney who are affected, it is all the people of Fenland who have to take a diversion around the flooded washes if they want to get from one side of the Fens to the other, so the cost to the local economy must be considerable.      Report

19/07/2008, 9:47 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 9,890 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. The rising sea level must be reducing the average rate of flow of the Fens fresh water drainage gardener. This must result in increased deposition and the slow change from drainage channels to flood plain. Basic Geological rock and rain cycles. It means there is a cost increase to maintain anything near a status quo condition, due to the need for more extensive dredging. There will come a time as the sea reaches a certain level, when simple dredging will achieve nothing at all. The only long term answer without surrendering to the sea, is to start major work in two areas. One: to build some form of barrier to prevent direct ingress of the sea during high tides and storm conditions. The other is to increase the height of river banks and the banks of drainage ditches above the surrounding land and dredge as necessary, to prevent the plain flooding, other than in a controlled way to make use of deposition to supply most of the soil for land reclamation. Much can be learned from both the Mississippi flood plain and Holland, to see just what can be achieved. Unfortunately with the current governments and society as it is in the UK, there is unlikely to be any interest in such massive projects before it becomes to late to save East Anglia as a whole. The people of East Anglia should be protesting against such stupid money wasting projects as the Olympic debacle in as strong a fashion as is possible. Those in power are buying this daft thing with their lives and the very ground they stand upon. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

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