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 11/05/2008, 12:33 PM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,743
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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Lets have a close look at the RSPB, an undemocratic, hirarchial non governmental organisation whith too much power over the infrastructure. The decisions are made by appointed members, just like the BA, now and then, members are allowed to have a vote on what species to 'manage' next, an artificial approach to nature conservation, imho. This management has always interfered in the natural environment and it is an instituion just as racialism. The RSPB is as white and middle class as natural England and other organisations who thrive on the priviledged charity and trust/tax laws to boot.
If elect, elect the whole lot, have a yearly rotating chair on the executive, this should provide some re-assurance and a fail safe. What is proposed is a fudge, they know we will not agree to it and the warngling will carry on, nothing will get done and the status quo will remain.
They all need sacking first, with previous incumbents need not apply. Decisions brought to the body should have been finalised with interested parties beforehand, so nobody can scream blue murder afterwards. I would elect a BA for four years and ask of every member to keep a weekly blog of activities and work they have undertaken, another easy way of informing the wider public.
I deally I would like to see a body of people who are interested in the whole of the Broads uses, rather less of single minded, gut breaking reps who want it all their way, it would get more done.
Just as the members on the BA executive, I would like to elect top judges and policemen, we are paying their wages and they are not going to be unempol;poyed if refused for a top job, so whats wrong with elections of our executives in public life? nevermind
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11/05/2008, 12:42 PM
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john
Joined on 07/08/2007
Posts 1,244
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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It is amazing how,even your local council can co-opt a mate onto the council without even a vote.No doubt this happens in the organisations we are discussing.John
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11/05/2008, 12:49 PM
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keith gerrard
 
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 11,322
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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11/05/2008, 2:09 PM
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Paul Holdsworth
Joined on 09/03/2007
Yorkshire
Posts 105
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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Have nice day ?
Sorry got carried away there!
I refer you interested parties to this months "bowsprit" in "Anglia Afloat", the issue's we are talking about now were one for 1964 and Desmond Trueman ?
Paul
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13/05/2008, 6:25 PM
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Paul Holdsworth
Joined on 09/03/2007
Yorkshire
Posts 105
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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Hello.
Just read "Neverminds" thread again.
I'm sorry but, Neverminds "type'ology" reads a bit like a certain individual on "Speakers Corner" ?
Maybe I'm wrong but maybe Nevermind can put my mind at rest that we don't have a traitor in our midst !?
Paul
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13/05/2008, 7:13 PM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,743
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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I can put your mind at rest, I have the same identity wherever I go online, Paul, never been on speakers corner. nevermind.
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14/05/2008, 6:38 AM
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john
Joined on 07/08/2007
Posts 1,244
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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In a way Nevermind,I can understand Pauls anxiety.There are mischievous people adding a post to this thread and then saying something entirely different on other forums.Generally speaking I think that the majority of people who do contribute to this thread are genuine,caring,folk who have one aim and that is to prevent any loss of life and property and to protect the Broads as much as is humanly possible and are not prepared to accept the words of non elected quangos.John
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14/05/2008, 8:38 AM
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Jamie Campbell
Joined on 08/10/2007
Posts 76
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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John.
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"Remember Paul and Keith the priveledged elected Navigation members will only sit as a advisory panel and will not have any say whatsoever in the running of the authority."
Wherever did you get the idea they were going to be elected? You or I could apply - but we'd have to be Selected.
Last weeks parliamentary debate seemed to come out in favour of some form of elections to the Authority rather than the Navigation Committee. Norman Lamb did a first rate job for his constituents but he only seemed to be looking for two elected members of the Broads authority - hardly a palace revolution. During the debate, the Defra Minister seemed to undertake to look at the appointment system (perhaps you too should write to him if you don't like what's been going on) and two days later, the Broads Authority agreed to "look at democracy". Turkeys voting for Christmas but they could hardly refuse in the face of a ministerial undertaking.
Democracy is a long way off yet. My personal view is that the Boundary Committee may represent the most pragmatic approach to returning the area to democratic control.
Under the Harbours Act, the Broads Authority members are responsible for navigational matters. Remember that in the current climate if this isn't done right and someone drowns, the incident can result in corporate manslaughter charges. In this respect, organisations such as the RSPB are doing themselves a considerable disservice. The last six Defra appointments have failed to include any navigational expertise at all - which is also unlikely to be found amongst local authority members. Couple this with the absence of navigational qualifications amongst Broads Authority employees and litigation is waiting in the wings. There is already evidence that the BA are running their Navigation outside the Harbours Act on a number of counts. It isn't even obvious who is the "Harbourmaster" or "Navigation Officer" at the moment.
Too many people and still not very good at it. Recent internal and conspicuous political attempts to weaken navigational lobby have only suceeeded in potentially worsening the situation for themselves. I do hope you find I'm consistent in my approach! |
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14/05/2008, 9:25 AM
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john
Joined on 07/08/2007
Posts 1,244
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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Jamie.Many thanks for bringing us up to date re the Broads Bill.You have again highlighted the fact that the so called elected members on the B.A.will only sit as a advisory panel.This I mentioned a little while ago.This was a bluff on behalf of the B.A.into making the general public think that they would now have members with some clout.My thanks also go to the local M.P. especially Norman Lamb who must have his hands full at this time.Although some of us live some distance away from Norfolk our thoughts are never the less sincere.John
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14/05/2008, 9:53 AM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,743
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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 john wrote: | | Jamie.Many thanks for bringing us up to date re the Broads Bill.You have again highlighted the fact that the so called elected members on the B.A.will only sit as a advisory panel.This I mentioned a little while ago.This was a bluff on behalf of the B.A.into making the general public think that they would now have members with some clout.My thanks also go to the local M.P. especially Norman Lamb who must have his hands full at this time.Although some of us live some distance away from Norfolk our thoughts are never the less sincere.John |
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Thanks Jamie for clearing the fog a little and showing up the lack of appointed expertise that leads this local quango.
I was a little concerned about the tacid approach to democracy by an MP who apparently does so much for his people, always applauded here and well amplified by Archant. Two elected members are not enough to break the back of the current regime, only when the BA is elected and a choice of candidates and expertise is standing for oofice, can we say that democratic values exist in the BA.
Once done, I would not hesitate to call the Broads the first democratically led national park in England, current appointed quango crats do not deserve such accolade.
To allay Pauls mind, I can honestly say that I do not write under any other pseudonym, ever, except in my own name. nevermind
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14/05/2008, 11:03 AM
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Scaramouche
Joined on 02/04/2006
obscure
Posts 1,396
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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I think this thread's become a bit of a wandering bard.
At the risk of sounding repetitive, I think where the BA's concerned, there's too much obsession with Form and not enough with Function.
There is nothing inherently wrong with Quangos, as an administrative tool.
There is a level of secondhand democracy achieved via representation from elected bodies, and sensitively yet firmly led, it should be possible to ameliorate the inherent weakness.
But when harnessing the insider knowledge from single-interest group members, you have to offset their tendency always to vote selfishly and in a single interest fashion.
The trouble is that when it all goes weak and wobbly like this one, we are at the mercy of whoever profits best in a power vacuum.
Which in this case is the Executive, and most specifically John Packman.
Jamie Campbell's certainly right about one thing. Slim down and rationalise the BA's activities, and the task becomes easier managed(even by quango).
Keep things as they are, and the current representative methods won't work, because the balance is lost.
And more Democracy won't necessarily help to make things fairer - in fact - it's quite likely to make things worse.
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14/05/2008, 12:44 PM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,743
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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Scaramouche you scare me when you say
There is nothing inherently wrong with Quangos, as an administrative tool.
Care to elaborate a little about accountability and the tendency of those not fit for the job to fall upwards into another job of similar structure, golden handshakes etc.
When this BA goes weak and wobbly as you say and you don't mind it carrying on, with a little slim down adjustment, whilst in the same breath claiming that democracy won't help necessarily to make things fairer, then what is your example for this. How can a quango be as accountable that a democratic system/ nevermind
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14/05/2008, 1:21 PM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 11,322
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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14/05/2008, 1:45 PM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,743
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Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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| Wibble wrote: | | nevermind wrote: | |
Once done, I would not hesitate to call the Broads the first democratically led national park in England, current appointed quango crats do not deserve such accolade.
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Nevermind, you've missed the point totally of one of the more vocal criticisms of the Broads Authority. It is NOT a National Park, and will never be one.
However much they'd like you to think it is, it isn't!
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Wibble, I know and it is a sad story to make this claim currently.
I said ONCE it has elected members, it merely takes an act of Parliament and some PR to call it a national park. Its environmental and ecological basis is good enough to apply for other European wetland habitat protection schemes, but with a quango in charge pulling one way or the other.
To say that it never will be a national park is equally pie in the sky, don't you think? nevermind
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EDP24 Forums » EDP24 General » News » Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.
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