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15/05/2008, 7:28 AM Sans Joined on 04/01/2005 North Norfolk Posts 206 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE Thanks Dave :) Thanks Sans "Who is so deaf as he who does not want to hear, or so blind as he who does not want to see"    Report

16/05/2008, 2:49 AM Eddie Mallett Joined on 11/01/2008 Posts 556 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE If you want to do a simple experiment of aura & the bodies energy field. Turn on a wireless & then slowly bring your hand to the wireless arial. Before you touch the wireless the reception will get stronger as your hand gets closer. How to see your Aura. This is best done on a white background. Look at a person standing by a white background. Then look just past the persons head, at the wall. You should soon be able to see a whitish outline around the persons head, that you are looking at. This is the Aura. In some cases if lucky, a person can also see colours TUT. I havent seen colours yet. Aura's very stronly, no colours though Best wishes Eddie    Report

16/05/2008, 3:16 AM Eddie Mallett Joined on 11/01/2008 Posts 556 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE Hi Sans I concider the Aura to be more spiritual than phsical. As to the pitstop. This could be the blame. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg4YrOlAkds&feature=related Best wishes Eddie    Report

16/05/2008, 8:18 AM Sans Joined on 04/01/2005 North Norfolk Posts 206 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE Hi Eddie, I will try that and let you know what happens. I am able to see aura's Eddie, the main colours being blue, white and silvery grey intermingled todate.  I found it helpful to do this when it is not light and preferably against a dark background - the aura shows up more clearly for me. Funny how we are discussing this as only last week I was showing different ways to see this to my friend using her hands only.  She saw light coming out of most of her fingertips, felt tingling in her hands and gravity was experienced like her hands that were out in front of her were being pulled down to the floor.  That was her first attempt - quite impressive.  I find that it is just a different way/technique of viewing (peripherally) and not directly that helps. Thanks Sans "Who is so deaf as he who does not want to hear, or so blind as he who does not want to see"    Report

16/05/2008, 8:23 AM Foreverautumn Joined on 19/12/2006 norwich Posts 132 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE LOL eddie your youtube links crack me up Dave www.hauntedweekend.com    Report

17/05/2008, 11:43 AM dyingtotalk Joined on 29/03/2006 Reepham Posts 205 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE  Sans wrote: What do you think? Are apparitions, ghosts, spirits, poltergeists able to retain any known physical properties such as atoms and molecules - in other words form? Hi Sans ponder on this... The physical and superphysical universes span 91 subplanes of seven cosmic planes of consciousness. The six superphysical planes span 6x7 = 42 subplanes. They are the domain of the perfected beings (mahatmas or still living jivamuktis), often referred in Christistinaty as the "community of saints" who no longer have to reincarnate and who exist within the eternal Life of God. The seventh plane is the cosmic physical plane. It spans seven planes, each of which is divided into seven subplanes. This is the terrestrial domain of human evolution. The lowest, physical plane is the physical universe - space-time. Hence, brain consciousness is aware of only 7 of the 91 levels of being, where 91 = 1^2 + 2^2 + 3^2 + 4^2 + 5^2 + 6^2. It leaves 84 superphysical levels, where 84 = 1^2 + 3^2 + 5^2 + 7^2, of which the immediate post-mortem state extends over the eighth to the fourteenth level. What religions call "Heaven" extends between the fourteenth and twenty-first levels. It is entered by a kind of second death in the after-life... (This BTW is something that is NEVER talked about in Spiritualists circles (pun intended) indeed even reincarnation is not part of the spiritualists doctrine) It is the abode of the human soul. Beyond that are formless, non-dual realms of the Divine Spirit which the soul consciousness experiences briefly before reincarnation of the Spiritual Individuality in a new body.   Now for the sixty four thousand dollar question Where/who does the information come from that Mediums purport come from ‘SPIRIT’?   There is Form in the lower astral realms as can be witnessed by those who have the ability to travel within these spheres, either by near death experiences, OBE’s or astral projection etc.     From experience i would have to say that it is possible to differtiate between psychical atoms and astral atoms only when one is able to experience the two differing states. As for other realms, as the time of writing I am unable to substantiate the existence of other any states as my finite mind is unable to comprehend the infinite.   Whilst I am very fortunate to have had... and have, some very good teachers a considerable amount of knowldge does come from non-physical beings.           As for proving the existence of ANY other dimensions beyond the scoop of our very limited five senses I would have to say the likes of Randi and co. are on to dead cert that they will never have to part with their money... EVER! Paul Paul & Pat Please feel free to email us & visit our web site below    Report

18/05/2008, 9:43 AM Sans Joined on 04/01/2005 North Norfolk Posts 206 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE Hi Paul, Yep, this thread has certainly given me more to 'ponder' over and you will all have to excuse my present level of ignorance:) I am no physician or mathematician - therefore I am more than happy to leave that domain to others and would like to know Paul if the information you provided regarding the physical and superphysical universes, subplanes and dimensions came from spirit and whether these dimensions are spatial or time related? So that I can get a better handle on what you have written, can you further explain what you mean by a kind of second death in the after-life when entering the 14th & 21st levels? I can see what your getting at when you explain how you are able to discriminate between physical and astral atoms and, it makes a lot of sense.   It just seems that something in the inbetween stages of transition from physical to astral is missing for me as in, how many mental functions may be retained in the astral body? I feel that we do not lose our personal identity, memory or emotions and that our sixth sense is the key between the subconsious mind and that of the astral being/world/worlds.  I certainly agree with you about Randi. A question to your 64 thousand dollar question - Depending on your own philosophy 7 religion...what came first the physical or the astral?    Thanks Sans "Who is so deaf as he who does not want to hear, or so blind as he who does not want to see"    Report

20/05/2008, 8:38 AM dyingtotalk Joined on 29/03/2006 Reepham Posts 205 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE Hi Sans I like you am no physician or mathematician - therefore I to am more than happy to leave that domain to others... as to where this information came from I would have to say from, well gods knows where! It is impossible to say where one world ends and another begins really, as for the aspect of time; time is for us at least, governed by the rising and setting of the sun and thus we count it in hours, mins, secs, days, weeks, years, decades, etc, etc., If we view a distant star or solar system we can in effect see backwards in time, we can see new solar systems and planets being born, as to what comes first the physical or the astral I would propound that the astral precedes the physical and that prior to that something else. To help us understand it we might call it anti-matter, or a gaseous state, or etheric substance... whatever it’s name, I have faith in it!   Sans might I recommend a book to you My introduction to Spiritualism was via a wonderful book entitled ‘On the Edge of the Etheric’ by a gentleman called Arther Findlay, it was the first in a trilogy. The other two books are called ‘The Rock of Truth’ and ‘The Unfolding Universe’ I must say I found the latter quite hard going. I believe that these books are still in print and can obtained from the Spiritualists National Union. They can be found at Stanstead Hall (which incidentally was left to them by the author to promote the understanding and study of psychic research {NOT religion}) I will find the links later for if you wish Although I am still serving churches, doing demonstrations of Mediumship and giving addresses about the philosophy of Spiritualism, my understanding is growing (some may say out growing) and my beliefs may differ somewhat now to what they did in the beginning. I have a good relationship with certain individuals who no longer inhabit this 3D world... I realise that that may sound either  conceited, weird or far fetched, or certainly total BS to some, it did to me once! It has over the last thirty odd years become my reality, one which I hasten to add is still in a process of changing and or evolving. Enough about me,       Sans pack a lunch (metaphorically speaking) and we will go on a sojourn into the realms of SPIRIT. When you have finished your coffee we will set off Paul & Pat Please feel free to email us & visit our web site below    Report

20/05/2008, 10:21 AM Sans Joined on 04/01/2005 North Norfolk Posts 206 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE Hi Paul, Thanks for sharing your knowledge and understanding wherever it came from...I do believe I agree with your thoughts on where worlds begin and ends including the solar system.  I can only suspect that there is another form of time in these other worlds/realms that govern the spiritual realms such as development, evolvement and existence. Again, I feel more strongly inclined to agree with the feeling that astral/spirit came second following whatever came first and that is not implying physical.  Even this raises so many questions.... I have got on the edge of the etheric and it has been some years since I read it - time to reread.  Please do provide the links to those other two books.  Perhaps they could be included on "our book list?". I have had copious amounts of tea, smoked my ciggy and am now all packed up and ready to go for an adventurous ride :)     Thanks Sans "Who is so deaf as he who does not want to hear, or so blind as he who does not want to see"    Report

20/05/2008, 11:58 AM Foreverautumn Joined on 19/12/2006 norwich Posts 132 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE Have read some Arthur Findlay books; Curse of Ignorance vol's 1 & 2 and The Psychic Stream Very interesting and thought provoking books. The Edge of the Etheric is my next read once ive obtained a copy. Dave www.hauntedweekend.com    Report

20/05/2008, 10:54 PM Sans Joined on 04/01/2005 North Norfolk Posts 206 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE Dave, Your more than welcome to read my copy. The other books you mentioned are they earlier or later editions to On the edge of the etheric? Thanks Sans "Who is so deaf as he who does not want to hear, or so blind as he who does not want to see"    Report

20/05/2008, 11:17 PM Foreverautumn Joined on 19/12/2006 norwich Posts 132 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE Sorry i couldnt tell you as i borrowed them off a friend. They are mainly based on religious study and how psychic ability was misinterupted as speaking to god. They tell of the development of religous practices from a psychic perspective. It is really strange that after reading these books the college left by arthur findlay has in its constitution references to god, when it is very much apparent that he dispised religion and what it creates. Dave www.hauntedweekend.com    Report

21/05/2008, 12:39 PM dyingtotalk Joined on 29/03/2006 Reepham Posts 205 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE Hi Dave An interesting point about Arthur Findlay and Stansted.  I suppose the problem isn't so much 'God' as what we (that's the collective 'we' of mankind - not you and me personally!)  do with the whole shebang of recognising and worshipping the God/Goddess/Divine Source of choice. Have you read 'The Age of Reason' by Thomas Paine?  (subtitle is 'Being an Investigation of True and Fabulous Theology')   It is an interesting critique of the bible and religion - obviously from his viewpoint.  It's not exactly holiday reading - the language is obviously old fashioned, but he verily calls a spade a spade!  We have a hard copy - but some of his books are available at this website - http://www.ushistory.org/Paine/index.htm.  He was actually born in Thetford, (and I have just discovered - shares my birthday!) and migrated to America when he was 37.  There is a long Wikipedia page about him   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine  - a very interesting man. My favourite quote of the moment - from 'The Age of Reason' - 'If I do not believe as you believe, it proves that you do not believe as I believe, and this is all that it prooves.' Have to leave it at that - as I have soooo much to do, I shouldn't even really be reading the forum - but couldn't resist a sneaky peak! Best Wishes, Pat Paul & Pat Please feel free to email us & visit our web site below    Report

21/05/2008, 2:00 PM Foreverautumn Joined on 19/12/2006 norwich Posts 132 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE Hi thanks Have heard of the Age of Reason, its another on my list to read sometime, when i get a chance lol Dave www.hauntedweekend.com    Report

22/05/2008, 8:26 AM Sans Joined on 04/01/2005 North Norfolk Posts 206 Re: APPARITIONS V SCIENCE Hi Dave, Thanks for the info.  I have now completely reread On the edge of the etheric and am willing to forward it on to you if you so wish? Hi Paul, Since rereading the above book everything seems much clearer now - even your kind of second death makes perfect logical sense. I am not sure why some ethereal beings choose to be born into the physical body.  I have heard many arguements regarding reincarnation, karma, life lessons and cycles and still this does not seem to fit with Arthur Findlay's 'night of instructions'!  Do you have a possible explanation? Thanks Sans "Who is so deaf as he who does not want to hear, or so blind as he who does not want to see"    Report

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