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 17/05/2008, 2:30 PM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,562
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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 keith gerrard wrote: | |
I have never understood how criminals in prison manage to get drugs.
This can only happen IMO if the prison officers are in on it or the standards of prison work is abysmal.
As to work safety and the daft PC society, it has all but killed off our countries economy so it must be time to bin most of it.
Those who still want to be soft on criminals, put the criminals next door to them.
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Very easy keith, from prison officers, over the fence, from relatives and friends, dare I say this here, dropped from remote control planes.
One place you are assured of being supplied is in prison. Governors cannot stop the dealing going on inside and prison officers I spoke to say that without drugs it would be a hell hole, not my words.
Those who go to prison and are caught testing positive for cannabis get their sentences increased, they end up switching from cannabis to taking heroin because that does not show up after 48 hours, bypassing the testing regime. The whole thing is unfathomable and out of hand.
The police despite their efforst for decades, are well aware that prohibition has proliferated drugs, that they cannot 'control drugs' as much as they would like and that many people who they are taking in, class A addicts, have fuelled crime waves to finance their habits.
Now the Government has initiated three free heroin trials, maintaining people on a daily does costing no more than 60 pence, whilst cutting burglaries and car break ins by over 40 %, the insurance companies are happy about this, because they don't need to be seen increasing the premiums every year.
Thats the problem Keith and prohibition and classification does not make an iota of a positive impact, it is expensive and in some cases so outrageous as to be criminal and unlawfull in itself. nevermind
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17/05/2008, 2:42 PM
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keith gerrard
 
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 10,659
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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I do not accept that nevermind.
I of course know that drugs are available in prisons but there must be something else behind it.
There is NOTHING IMO that makes it impossible to prevent the practice.
Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk
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17/05/2008, 3:12 PM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,562
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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| keith gerrard wrote: | |
I do not accept that nevermind.
I of course know that drugs are available in prisons but there must be something else behind it.
There is NOTHING IMO that makes it impossible to prevent the practice.
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keith most prisons are old, victorian remnances of latter day criminality. Norwich's A block was condemned once, for years, only to be re opened in a fit of Government spending, a lick of paint a few new toilets and hey presto good enough for another hundred years, its full of nooks and crannies.
You of all know what one can do with little machines and because of prohibition always limping behind the effort of international drugs gangs, far more savvy than any enforecement could alleviate, they have the money and time to think out new ways to bring them in. bribing has always worked and is still one of the most effective ways of getting drugs into prisons.
Should you advocate that Prison officer get an overall bodysearch before coming to work, Keith? then you'll going to have some ride with their union, dare I say they'll quote all the human rights laws at you and let you know, that a strike in prison is not what Governors necessarily want to ask for with such a measure.
The choice is between a quiet prisons, or riotous hell holes were would you choose to work in, given the opportunity? prohibition works better outside prisons than inside. nevermind
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17/05/2008, 3:28 PM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 10,659
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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It is not a question of where they would prefer to work, or the niceties of a prison governor's job, or even for government cost reasons.
Breaking the law for convenience and and easy life is just not acceptable.
There is something else behind all this and it needs dealing with.
Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk
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17/05/2008, 5:20 PM
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spindrift
Joined on 04/04/2006
Posts 2,440
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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| nevermind wrote: | | keith gerrard wrote: | |
I do not accept that nevermind.
I of course know that drugs are available in prisons but there must be something else behind it.
There is NOTHING IMO that makes it impossible to prevent the practice.
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keith most prisons are old, victorian remnances of latter day criminality. Norwich's A block was condemned once, for years, only to be re opened in a fit of Government spending, a lick of paint a few new toilets and hey presto good enough for another hundred years, its full of nooks and crannies.
You of all know what one can do with little machines and because of prohibition always limping behind the effort of international drugs gangs, far more savvy than any enforecement could alleviate, they have the money and time to think out new ways to bring them in. bribing has always worked and is still one of the most effective ways of getting drugs into prisons.
Should you advocate that Prison officer get an overall bodysearch before coming to work, Keith? then you'll going to have some ride with their union, dare I say they'll quote all the human rights laws at you and let you know, that a strike in prison is not what Governors necessarily want to ask for with such a measure.
The choice is between a quiet prisons, or riotous hell holes were would you choose to work in, given the opportunity? prohibition works better outside prisons than inside. nevermind
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Quite true, cannabis, being a mostly harmless soporific, is tolerated by warders who recognise the positive effect. Most drugs are smugled into prison, sometimes the staff or even lawyers take the drugs in, just as prohibition lines the pockets of those with an interest in prolonging prohibition. Even The CIA makes huge sums of money from the narcotics trade, as the British Army allows and even helps facilitate the poppy harvest in Afghanistan.
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17/05/2008, 8:12 PM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,562
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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Bang on Spindrift, its a catch 22 situation because all those dependent on the prohibition carrying on will always shout for more of the same, whether it works or not. nevermind
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17/05/2008, 8:24 PM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 10,659
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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Both of you have totally missed the point and added further to the modern attitude of law breaking as long as it is convenient to back up your stance on an issue.
I believe in legalizing drugs and I agree with your arguments against prohibition.
However I do not in any way agree with breaking the law by allowing prisoners access to drugs or anything else.
They are in prison and everything they have access to should be controlled for that reason.
I doubt spindrift would agree with me if I suggested ignoring speed limits where they made no logical sense.
If some prisoners have drugs problems then these problems should be sorted out, if they are addicts then they should not be in a conventional prison anyway.
Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk
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18/05/2008, 12:04 AM
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spindrift
Joined on 04/04/2006
Posts 2,440
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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| Jill wrote: | |
The thing is that these cannabis users would tolerate cannabis being used for soporific effects to lessen violent tendencies in offenders but would scream blue murder at the authorities when the velvet cosh of anti depressants are used.
They might give us some respect not to class us as fools who do not realiase this is another bandwagon they are jumping on to get cannabis use in by the back door.
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You would ban a prisoner from taking anti-depressants?
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18/05/2008, 10:47 AM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,562
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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| Jill wrote: | |
The thing is that these cannabis users would tolerate cannabis being used for soporific effects to lessen violent tendencies in offenders but would scream blue murder at the authorities when the velvet cosh of anti depressants are used.
They might give us some respect not to class us as fools who do not realiase this is another bandwagon they are jumping on to get cannabis use in by the back door.
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If you can bring down the 10.000 directly related death from prescription drugs, Jill, I would give such an expensive approach some thought, but it merely feeds those who are already making the NHS one of the most expensive health services in Europe.
Nobody has disrespected anybody, as yet, nor has there been any disrespect, so there is no need to break up a debate with shrill notes.
What backdoor are you talking about, Jill, its wide open already and thanks to prohibition the market is flooded with contaminated unregulated cannabis of various strenght, harming youngsters.
At the last UN meeting, a dutch doctor, in psychaetry, for the second time asked Mr. Da Costa why he thinks the Dutch approach is so much more effective and successfull and why the UN can not see good examples and adopt them? the learned gentleman, not an advocate of cannabis use, but a doctor, was accused of harrassment and escorted out of the room. I ask anyone to look it up on youtube, its disgracefull, because it shows that nobody is prepared to change the status quo, merely want to increase the tax take for something that has never worked and will never work.
Pen and teller have another take on the war on drugs and vested interests are involved, as well available on youtube, anybody is welcome to educate themselves as to what is really happening in the war on drugs and how much money it has cost societies. nevermind
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18/05/2008, 12:35 PM
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Osama Bin Laden
Joined on 07/11/2007
Posts 138
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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In my experience of working within drug and alcohol rehabilitation centres and detox units I can safely say that Drug Rehabilitation Orders (DRO's) are a very sensible idea. It is my experience that the people who opt for them in the court in an attempt to avoid prison soon change their mind sadly when they realise that they are not ready to live without drugs and realise that prison is in fact the easier option! Detoxing from drugs and alcohol is not easy and learning to live without them when you have been using since the age of 12 (as is suggested of the fellow in the original article) is even harder. Personally, I think it is common sense to allow this chap to have the opportunity to change his lifestyle and beat his addictions. Sending him to prison in the past has not worked and is an expensive option when you consider the high chances of repeat offending on release. Having worked with people on DRO's who have been very committed and motivated towards their recovery I can say that I have seen them work and seen people make drastic changes as a result of them. Even those who in the end relapse back on to drugs thus not achieving full abstinence can reduce the related harmful behaviour associated with uncontrolled drug use by already being in treatement and recieving community prescriptions of substitute drugs, reducing the need for criminal behaviour. If the chap in the article relapses whilst on his DRO and breaches his order he will more than likely be sent to prison so I can see no problem with this courts decision.
I say good luck to him and I hope he manages to change his life around. It's not easy and the hard work he will have to put in is likely to extend past his DRO but it can be done.
"Greatness sits on my shoulders as a dog urinates on the pavement.....with naturalness and ease and some offence to passersby."
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18/05/2008, 12:48 PM
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Jill
Joined on 15/08/2005
Norfolk
Posts 1,978
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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In my own experience of working with offenders with drug problems their take on the drug scene was if they were returned to prison, they would resume their habit of even higher use.
That is not to say that it is not right to send people to prison for offending.
What it takes is better security and even then it will never be totally controlled.
When I was at college, an offender was on day release and was threatened that if he didnt bring drugs back to the prison there would be consequences.
But to say, to use cannabis to reduce violent behaviour is only something a confused user would even have thought up.
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18/05/2008, 1:08 PM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,562
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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Not my suggestion, but what reality throws at us Jill and a sad affair to boot, because the reasoning behind prohibition falls to bits when one looks at the cool facts.
The 5 % safety margin which applies to prescription drugs can easily be applied to cannabis. Out roughly 5 million users, some 0.0125 % will ever have a problem with it, a natural and very safe drug indeed.
Self medication by people with MS, MD, Glaucoma, cancer, spasticities, severe period pains, asthma, any muscle and nervous related illness and much more, have positive experiences from taking this plant and thats just the medical applications. The versatility of this plant genus is such, that witholding its beneficial and environmental superior qualities from society is criminal. nevermind
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18/05/2008, 1:11 PM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 10,659
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Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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If the present prison service is unable to prevent the use of drugs in their establishments, then they cannot describe their operations as prisons but simply as mildly controlled free residential facilities.
To prevent the practice is simple if there is the will.
Of course properly diagnosed drug addicts should never be in a conventional prison anyway.
If convicted they should be on compulsory rehabilitation in secure environments run by government and staffed by conscripts.
Those who argue for legalizing cannabis (which I could well support), are always stating that it is not addictive, so there would be no problem in eliminating it from our prisons.
Just get rid of the badly run private security companies and bring prisons under military control.
Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk
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EDP24 Forums » EDP24 General » News » Re: Prolific offender ecsapes jail term
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