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17/12/2007, 7:39 PM gardener Joined on 04/10/2007 Posts 1,171 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers? I am no psychologist or sociologist but it seems to me that the bully is most often one of two sorts -manipulative for their own ends  or lacking in intellect and /or the capability to deal with what they see a threatening environment/person. How much those who make racist attacks and their political drivers follow this pattern is open to debate, but I suspect  some of the politicians behind the BNP may be the manipulators whilst their followers on the street may be those with a perceived/imagined grievance. Unable to relate to a multicultural environment, possibly isolated from the wider community by unemployment or by temperament and ready to lash out at those they see as threat to their security/status. This reaction to a perceived threat may be nothing whatsoever to do with the BNP. Take the case of the coloured youths who killed a student by throwing him from a bridge , or more recently the three who kicked a young man to death for bumping into him in the street, in both cases people of one hue killing someone who was not the same as them. It seems to me that multiculturalism is not  anthropologically natural. It is natural to protect ones tribe because the members of that tribe are more likely to be genetically related. If we have spent  thousands of years thinking in this way then a change to a multicultural society has to be handled carefully. No dog likes a stranger in its yard. Organisations such as the BNP will always attract the psychos in society but we should worry when normally moderate people start to feel they are talking sense, and wonder why it is so. Is it because the BNP has policies which are more appealing than previously or is it that a wider percentage of society is feeling threatened and powerless and that none of the politicians are recognising how they feel about today's Britain?   Is the BNP filling a vacuum because people feel when it comes to the  next election it will be a case of  None of the Above?    Report

17/12/2007, 7:52 PM Darcy Joined on 15/12/2007 Posts 374 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers?  Alan Hardesty wrote: A good thing that the alleged victims are described as Asian British really.  Had they simply been white guys you can bet your bottom dollar they would not be getting so much attention.  The usual utter nonsense. Would you care for me to go through the media for you and point out the stabbings and violence of white people by white people being reported around the country, it seems to me you are purposely missing it. But thats you're whole agenda isnt it. You might not be acquainted with basic economics but if foreign students start boycotting the UEA due to the acts of nasty little peddlars of hate and bigotry then we all loose out. By the way, the BNP cyber activism policy you lot are engaged in is going very well, you certainly have this forum well covered. http://www.bnp.org.uk/?p=49#comments     Laughing.    Report

17/12/2007, 7:56 PM Darcy Joined on 15/12/2007 Posts 374 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers?  Alan Hardesty wrote: Any of the Norwich BNP's 'massif' care to rant a load of nonsense about recent events?" I think we can leave the ranting to you chum. Ranting? I thought we were all engaged in free speech and cyber activism.... Dont start showing your true colours now, your modern leadership wouldn't be impressed! Laughing.    Report

17/12/2007, 8:27 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,626 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers? Forced cultural integration is most certainly NOT natural gardener. Almost all such cases throughout history have resulted in violence and even genocide. I keep saying it but any government responsible for destroying a countries culture by forcing foreign cultures into it displays but one trait. Treason. Sensibly controlled immigration that takes natural integration into account is the only natural way to deal with this problem. I fear that the morons have gone to far now to avoid civil strife however. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

17/12/2007, 9:39 PM Hawk Eye Joined on 20/11/2007 Posts 76 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers? I think the main problem is that the other poltical parties have been unable to come up with any kind of plan to the immigration problem.  For me its not the issue of race, skin colour or anything like this.  Its simply there are to many people in the UK!  If tomorrow 50 million people in the UK died then maybe I would welcome 20 to 30 million new people.  But at the moment the country is full so only very select immigration should be allowed. Maybe BNP has changed.  I have met some of their people and they are very switched on.  I am not saying I will vote for them as they are anti NATO and anti Eurofighter Typhoon.  However on immigration they raise many valued arguments.  Their leader Nick Griffin seems a lot more down to Earth and in tune with the average Brit then Blair, Brown, Cameron or Cable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What annoys the military guys I know is while they are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan their are immigrants in this country (some now British subjects) actually in the streets in the UK saying our boys should be killed.  Yet the government and police do nothing.    Report

18/12/2007, 12:51 AM Rupert Joined on 19/11/2007 Posts 613 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers?  nevermind wrote: Vote Green.  You know it makes sense. - If the Greens get in, then we won't have to work, because everybody will be entitled to a free, non means-tested 'Citizen's Income'. Tell us more about this citizens income Rupert, does that mean all benefits are scrapped as well and no more unemployed will exist? Does this mean that anybody is prohibited to work? as I understand it, this is a simplification of a totally derailed benefit system, now out of control and if you read what it actually means you might be surprised. nevermind 'Off Topic', but since you asked and I'd hate to be castigated for failing to answer your question, nevermind : If you're arguing that the present benefit system doesn't work, I've no argument with you there.  I don't doubt that there are some people who need benefits who don't get them and that there are also people who are not entitled to benefits but who do get them.  From what you told me the last time we talked about the 'Citizen's Income', it will be "enough money to enable each person to enjoy a reasonable standard of living."   - Enough money to provide housing, food, clothing, heating, transportation and, presumably - if it's to be a 'reasonable' standard of living, rather than borderline poverty - enough money to provide for a reasonable amount of entertainment and to allow each individual to partake fully in social life. There would be plenty of people who were unemployed. - The retired, the unemployable, those who are not capable of work along with all those who are prepared to accept a reasonable standard of living and don't want to work.  There would, of course, be nobody who was unemployed and not receiving benefits. If everybody is going to receive a grant from the state which will be sufficiently large to enable them to do that, there will be no need for a benefit system like the one we have at present.  The 'Citizens' Income' would solve the problem of those people who are missing out on benefits, but since everybody - the needy, those who don't need the money and the greedy (those who at the moment claim benefits to which they are not entitled) will receive this payment, the cost would be enormous.  The present governementt is talking about increasing the retirement age, because it is worried that it can't afford to pay the meagre pensions it's committed to pay at present.  The Citizens' Income would reduce the retirement age - to 'birth'. Who will pay for it? When we spoke about this a couple of years ago, you argued that there would be a significant number of people who would want more than the 'reasonable standard of living' provided gratis by the state and those people would work to earn more money. No doubt there would, but anybody who does work is going to have to pay pretty hefty levels of tax to pay for all those who don't work.   There may well be a significant number who wanted to work to earn more money, but I suggest the rate of 'financial immigration' - those migrants coming to the UK for financial reasons - would increase dramatically and not all of those would want to work.    A free income with high taxes for anybody who works would, I suggest,  attract  far more people who don't want to work than it would people who do.  Many of those who do want to work and who want to achieve an above-average standard of living would vote against it.  With their feet - moving to countries where they keep more of what they earn. Who will pay for the Citizens' Income  then? Rupert    Report

18/12/2007, 1:07 PM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 1,559 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers? Off course this is off topic, if this is a topic at all. I cannot argue against your point raised, this citizens income policy was designed to simplify the benefit system, not to pay for each and every European citizen who happens to be living and working here. Further, these policies will have to be put through a treasury model to find out whether they actually work, quiet a task and expensive, not something the Green Party can afford at present, they have been living on a shoestring since existence. A citizens income must be preceded by a purge on tax avoidance, which is in my view the biggest crime to this economy. I have changed my mind since the first time we talked about it, because you cannot make provisions for hundreds of thousands of EU citizens without a reciproke system, not unlike that in the NHS, if polish citizens fall on hard times here, than the polish Government should secure their standard of living. Further, those employers who see nothing in shipping in immigrants to suit their personal needs, only to let these workers go when their contract is finished, have to be made responsible for the extra demands on society, they are getting away with it scott free.   As for the media stop gap BNparty, with too many friends in high places, chums in Cambridge and blueblooded supporters, always out for a headline, be it on Radio TV or in the papers, they have not much else to offer but hate and bile. What surprises is that despite their minority support, the BBC has managed to give them a disproportionate amount of news time, something the Greens can only dream of. But thats all to change soon, once the Greens have a leader,(sic), the media will fall over itself to plakate their views of down sizing, less consumption and energy self sufficiency, trust me it will happen. nevermind    Report

19/12/2007, 10:32 PM Darcy Joined on 15/12/2007 Posts 374 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers? "Ms Graham claims that the party's "Security Department" broke into the home she shares with another prominent activist - ironically, the Head of Security Matt Single - and removed her computer and other personal information. The party says it was let in by a "key holder" and simply took away its own property." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7152657.stm "The British National Party has been engulfed by a bitter internal row with around 50 senior figures resigning the party whip amid claims the leadership has been spying on private emails and telephone calls." http://politics.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,,2229254,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront   Dear oh dear. Laughing.    Report

20/12/2007, 7:21 AM Hans Datdoodishes Joined on 20/12/2007 Posts 1 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers? "You will always have nutters in any society.........The UK sadly lets them fester and grow............ "   Unfortunately our indiginous nutters, (no offence to our Muslim brothers and any other creed whose roots are not entirely entrenched in this sceptred isle.) haven't yet taken to strapping large amounts of Cemtex to themselves and blowing up themselves and anyone who is near them just to make a point, but how long before they do? 5years? 10 years, next week? Afterall suicide bombing in its present form is a relatively recent activity born of the frustration these people have at not being heard. The longer our so-called government keep turning a blind eye to an increasing problem then I fear it is not too far away. I do feel that the BNP has a real point, but they suffer from the negative press from years ago. We seem quite at ease with having the hook handed guy, (alright I grant you he is now behind bars) preach hate and murder on London streets, but how long did he get away it? I dont think the BNP advocates violence, it just seems associated with it. As extremists go, people of Great Britain, ours are pussy cats compared to other societies on this planet who'll go to just about any lengths to make their point, good or bad, right or wrong.        Report

20/12/2007, 10:48 AM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,626 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers? Don't underestimate those who still retain a national pride and responsibility Hans. Germany did that twice. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

20/12/2007, 10:50 AM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 1,559 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers? And here comes Hans with more inflamming of the issue, he's so obviously a plant by the BNP desinged to wind us all up, keep this sordid threat alive Many of these muslims brothers, born and bred British, are todays fighting for this country, a fact not heard mentioned by these scoundrels, ex criminals and bouncers. BNP bombers never come into it and the notoriety of the media in giving these scoundrels the air of publicity is staggering. I believe that on this list they are being allowed to say anything they like, they have accomplices here and its not right, there is one thing to allow a debate at a university and another in letting trash post anything they like, this is not public debate but using this list as a mouthpiece. There is a far greater threat of any of us dying from flooding, or hundreds of other reasons, than ever from a terrorist attack, the war on terror always was a construct to control resources geostrategically, it was initiated by the west, carried out by the west and now that some are fighting back, the BNP exploits it with their small minded perocial arguments and get support from moderation.   The truth is, the BNP is split and with that a crescendo of flailing and bad mouthing results in post as such. Many of their councillors have resigned the whip, whilst others are polishing their boots to go off and march with some neonazi's in Russia, or beat up some student, somewhere. Cut this thread out, it stinks and inflames. nevermind    Report

20/12/2007, 12:16 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,626 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers? Ordinary Muslims are not the enemy nevermind and it is here I part company with the racists in or out of the BNP. Those who would foster civil unrest and fail to deal with uncontrolled immigration are the enemy. The ones who control the yanks and our silly government. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

20/12/2007, 1:52 PM snomaes Joined on 30/09/2004 Broome, Norfolk Posts 607 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers?  nevermind wrote: And here comes Hans with more inflamming of the issue, he's so obviously a plant by the BNP desinged to wind us all up, keep this sordid threat alive Many of these muslims brothers, born and bred British, are todays fighting for this country, a fact not heard mentioned by these scoundrels, ex criminals and bouncers. BNP bombers never come into it and the notoriety of the media in giving these scoundrels the air of publicity is staggering. I believe that on this list they are being allowed to say anything they like, they have accomplices here and its not right, there is one thing to allow a debate at a university and another in letting trash post anything they like, this is not public debate but using this list as a mouthpiece. There is a far greater threat of any of us dying from flooding, or hundreds of other reasons, than ever from a terrorist attack, the war on terror always was a construct to control resources geostrategically, it was initiated by the west, carried out by the west and now that some are fighting back, the BNP exploits it with their small minded perocial arguments and get support from moderation.   The truth is, the BNP is split and with that a crescendo of flailing and bad mouthing results in post as such. Many of their councillors have resigned the whip, whilst others are polishing their boots to go off and march with some neonazi's in Russia, or beat up some student, somewhere. Cut this thread out, it stinks and inflames. nevermind Freedom of speech also includes freedom to ignore postings. If you don't like these particular postings, don't read (or contribute) to them!    Report

20/12/2007, 2:20 PM kenneth Joined on 14/08/2003 Posts 1,095 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers? Freedom of speech also includes freedom to ignore postings. If you don't like these particular postings, don't read (or contribute) to them! Absolutely right, better to ignore than to ban - that is the way to preserve a free democratic society.     Report

20/12/2007, 9:32 PM Denise Joined on 05/01/2006 near Great Yarmouth Posts 540 Re: British National Party not nasty little Hitler worshippers?  Hans Datdoodishes wrote: "You will always have nutters in any society.........The UK sadly lets them fester and grow............ "   Unfortunately our indiginous nutters, (no offence to our Muslim brothers and any other creed whose roots are not entirely entrenched in this sceptred isle.) haven't yet taken to strapping large amounts of Cemtex to themselves and blowing up themselves and anyone who is near them just to make a point, but how long before they do? 5years? 10 years, next week? Afterall suicide bombing in its present form is a relatively recent activity born of the frustration these people have at not being heard. The longer our so-called government keep turning a blind eye to an increasing problem then I fear it is not too far away. I do feel that the BNP has a real point, but they suffer from the negative press from years ago. We seem quite at ease with having the hook handed guy, (alright I grant you he is now behind bars) preach hate and murder on London streets, but how long did he get away it? I dont think the BNP advocates violence, it just seems associated with it. As extremists go, people of Great Britain, ours are pussy cats compared to other societies on this planet who'll go to just about any lengths to make their point, good or bad, right or wrong. And out of the woodwork they come, courtesy of - well, I think we know who has an ongoing identity crisis on here. The BNP is, thankfully, ripping itself to pieces in one of the most vitriolic disputes in its history - and that's saying something. The matter of alleged illegal entry, theft and Data Protection Act offences perpetrated by the BNP leadership is now in the hands of the police, as are the matters of financial impropriety I posted on here some time ago. So I won't mention them, but using Parliamentary privilege, Jon Cruddas MP can and did. You can keep up with the BNP's sorry saga at my own website, Lancaster UAF, or with our very good friends at Searchlight. Unity News / Norfolk Unity    Report

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