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 13/05/2008, 11:13 AM
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Jill
 
Joined on 15/08/2005
Norfolk
Posts 2,004
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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If I might give examples of the floodings at Walcott and the deviousness of the authorities involved which still six months after the flooding has still not put their hands up to their mistakes.
We all know that huge mistakes were made, yet the actual people involved have squirmed, refused to answer questions and downright lied to cover their own backs and jobs.
The Environment Agency, couldnt predict wave height which flooded 20+ properties, yet still want to scrap the sirens which could blanket warn to evacuate. Their telephone warning system failed, their e mail and media warnings were useless during the night, yet they want to take away the one thing that we all feel safe with.
The Police, still say that Silver Control was not stood down during the sea surge. We have admittance that it was from a North Norfolk District Council official who was in Silver that it was. No wet weather gear was issued and the police on the ground were instructed not to go into the water.
North Norfolk District Council has refused to admit any blame, refused to answer questions and passed the buck every time when put on the spot.
The result will be a whitewash when the report to the Fire Protection Review Panel is given on May 20th, we are in no doubt that it will only show the positive aspects (such as no one got killed, which was only down to wind change and not to any authority) and nothing remedial will be achieved.
This is the climate we now have to deal with, no one taking responsibility or blame, whitewashing over the cracks and the same people in charge to do exactly the same thing all over again.
This I fear will be the same to the Broads and the Broadland villages affected. Faceless officialdom, goverment ministers showing their face and then disappearing into Westminster with ineffective promises.
Thank goodness we have Norman Lamb, Malcolm Kerby and Paul Morse who definately are on our side to fight for our cause, we need all the help we can get.
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13/05/2008, 11:17 AM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 10,705
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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If the RSPB is a charity then its accounts must be available for public view along with its expenditure.
Anybody effected by the RSPB in Broadland has the right to demand all the paperwork and computer read outs that have a connection with them.
So who amongst those at risk of drowning, is going to be first?
Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk
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13/05/2008, 5:27 PM
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trekker
Joined on 09/11/2007
Norwich
Posts 60
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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SOME POTTER HEIGHAM RESIDENTS HELD A MEETING LAST FRIDAY NIGHT AT THE VILLAGE HALL TO ADD THEIR VOICE TO THE NATURAL ENGLAND DEBATE, DID ANYONE ON THIS FORUM GO?. I WANTED TO ATTEND BUT WAS WORKING. WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT HAPPENED.
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15/05/2008, 10:26 AM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,589
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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I was not there Trekker and by the response you are getting, nobody from Archant was there either to report on the meeting, which shows how much public activities are being kept out of the public eyem, nothing new, thats how the OBN operates here.
If you have realised on our TV screens, almost daily some RSPB wildlife group is doing something along the coast. Day before yesterday, the BBC Look East amplified what the ENvironmenatl agency were trying to tell us, how good it was to let land go in Essex, whilst yesterday it was the RSPB releasing some elvers, the comment was 'we are not just looking after birds, we are also caring about other wildlife issues'
Well shiver me timbers, I expect natural England to be the next to come out with some sublimeral talk about 'how wildflie benefits from a Wash basin as it is'.... thats news management to you and the media is in on it, big time. nevermind
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15/05/2008, 10:50 AM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 10,705
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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I can but totally agree with you on this one nevermind.
Unfortunately with the media on side it is child's play to convince the public using pretty dicky birds and endangered species.
Humans are just in the way to these people.
Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk
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15/05/2008, 10:50 AM
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john
Joined on 07/08/2007
Posts 1,138
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Natural England,R.S.P.B,DEFRA,B.A. were all present at the secret meeting at Colegate to discuss the proposed plans Nevermind,what makes you think that they should invite the public? John
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15/05/2008, 10:51 AM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 10,705
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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15/05/2008, 12:02 PM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,589
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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 john wrote: | | Natural England,R.S.P.B,DEFRA,B.A. were all present at the secret meeting at Colegate to discuss the proposed plans Nevermind,what makes you think that they should invite the public? John |
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Because the public is using the public Broads, they do not represent private or vested interest like these few in appointed office, dare I say this, if the current incumbents would stand for election, some might actually get in, not because they are able to do the job, but because they have the money, time and support in the local Archant press to hobnob their candidature about the place.
Political ineptness does not mean that people are disinterested, just not in the politics as we know it. nevermind
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15/05/2008, 3:14 PM
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john
Joined on 07/08/2007
Posts 1,138
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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I did say that,tongue in cheek Nevermind.Of course they live in their little ivory castles and wouldn't dream of involving the public.It reminds me of a occasion a few months ago when I complained to one of our councillors re vandalism and alchol problems with teenagers on our local park.She turned round and said"Where is that park" Right opposite the council offices I replied. They have not got a clue.John
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15/05/2008, 10:27 PM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 10,705
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Going back a moment to the Wash Barrier.
I think I have the answer.
Build the barrier and use the reclaimed land to grow sugar beet and distill it to produce alcohol for use as a fuel.
Job done.
When do we start.
Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk
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16/05/2008, 9:32 AM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,589
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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| keith gerrard wrote: | |
Going back a moment to the Wash Barrier.
I think I have the answer.
Build the barrier and use the reclaimed land to grow sugar beet and distill it to produce alcohol for use as a fuel.
Job done.
When do we start.
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First you have to persuade the hirarchy of the RSPB, all wildlife 'trusts', English nature and all the hangers on who have a job with them, keith, thats the biggest hurdle, to change their attitude towards Humans, currently only considered as pay cows and yes sayers to their agendas.
They are promoting wildlife as if it was in a box, encourage their members to commit long journeys to see little birdies and have ammassed so much power that they can colour any Government of the day with their priorities, persudae them to take their agendas into Government programmes, so how are you going to get your sugar beet Keith?
The Washbarrier, proposed to be built sustainably from sand, will not happen until we all get united behind the cause of sea defenses. As long as they can pick us off, one by one like a turkey shoot, they will proceed as normal.
Tell you what, if the Fenlands are flooded it would take two weeks and the decision would be given to build a barrier, quickly, in haste and with mistakes that can be avoided at present, with foresight, planning and in cooperation with these groups.
As yet they are standing on a platform and shouting NO at us from great hight, aloof, I find it sad that these nature boffins really can't grasp that Schumacher talked of a harmonic sustainability, not a cut throat fight of human interests versus wildlife. nevermind
All NGO's have this whiff of top down, we decide what to campaign for attitude.
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16/05/2008, 9:40 AM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 10,705
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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16/05/2008, 10:17 AM
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gardener
Joined on 04/10/2007
Posts 1,173
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Take a look at the maps ( www.getamap.co.uk) and you will see that a Wash barrage is not really needed. All that is needed is the current outer sea bank to be raised in line with sea levels rising and similarly the river banks and for the rivers to have mini versions of the Thames Barrage , which they would need to have anyway if a bank was built across the mouth of the Wash. I wonder if creating a sea bank between Lincs and Hunstanton would make more problems than it solved, being more exposed to currents and the open sea could it be more expensive to maintain than the present banks which are protected to some extent by the soft defences of the seamarsh and could an outer barrier interfere with sediment deposition along the Norfolk coast line at Thornham Brancaster etc? . Such a proposition would need very careful modelling and as I have said before it is not just the process of creating a bank, it is the engineering of lifting water out of the Fens that is vital, not just stopping the sea getting in. Before we start fighting with the real concerns of the naturalists we should consider what the proposer of this project, as interesting as it is, has to gain if it comes about.I agree that the RSPB management often has money from members foremost in its collective mind but to lose the Wash feeding grounds unnecessarily would be a shame.
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16/05/2008, 10:31 AM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 10,705
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Losing any natural balanced environment is always a shame gardener.
The natural balance of the wash is going to change whatever we do however.
Accurate modeling is essential and I long to see this being done. Why is it not the subject of major work right now?
I also agree with your main point, which is the requirement to lift fresh water from the river drainage system to the sea.
I think we need to look again to Holland for advice on this technology.
No matter what the narrow focused environmentalists say, England cannot afford to lose huge areas of its land mass or its food production.
This is NOT a matter for charities like the RSPB or unelected quangos like the BA to hold sway over.
This is our children's future and the future of our country.
Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk
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16/05/2008, 11:57 AM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,589
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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gardener wrote:
Before we start fighting with the real concerns of the naturalists we should consider what the proposer of this project, as interesting as it is, has to gain if it comes about.I agree that the RSPB management often has money from members foremost in its collective mind but to lose the Wash feeding grounds unnecessarily would be a shame.
I don't propose to fight, but to persuade gardener, as it stands currently the misperceptions over this project are more widely pronounced than the reality of it.
First, the proposer of the project has clearly said that once built, he will walk away from it and leave it in public hands.
Secondly the soft barrier, as I may call it, is being constructed from sand that is filled into large textile bags, turning them into hard, but soft sea defenses, a pilot project with these bags already exist, we know that they would do the job at the heart of a barrier.
Concrete is only proposed for the lock system, the energyturbine system, producing up to and over a gigawatt, the equivalent of two nucl;ear powerstations, at a cost that we can digest economically.
The impact on the sands will be negigible, as the Longshore drift will always erode the east coast, unless you have an idea on how to divert the drift, there will always be sand landing in the wash basin, which acts like a sand pump in a way and the Norfolk coast line, currently being hit by the drift, would receive more sand than at present, imho, but the more learned know much better.
It is our in our national interest to safeguard energy supplies, I argue that 1/5th.of our food supplies produced in the Fenlands, is equally important and in the national interest, not just for the 500.000 people who live in the flood prone area, own property there and/or make a living from the land.
Now if you look at the map, as you so righly say and count the miles of sea defenses that have to raised, again and again, because not one british Government will make this permissive issue a priority spending target, you will find out that there is no value in such activity, there is no gain from it, because the risks are still there and acute, whilst with a barrier you have forward defenses which take the brunt of a storm surge and protect the wash basin as well as the 'Hinterland' as the wildlife groups call the Fenlands.
I hear from this week that the Environmental agency is working to finalise its shoreline management plan for the wash basin, stirred up into action, just as the wildlife groups, they know that without more sticky patch solutions, the mood in the population might swing against them, hence all the PR and fine pics on our TV screens.
I agree on the carefull monitoring, so does the proposer of the project, as long as time is on our side we can plan a comprehensive, least environmentally destructive barrier, but in ten years time this might not be the case anymore.
Governments denial on the flood problem and their incessant profitting from other peoples misery has to stoip, prevention has got to become a national priority. nevermind
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EDP24 Forums » EDP24 General » News » Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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