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03/10/2007, 8:46 AM john Joined on 07/08/2007 Posts 1,065 R.S.P.B.Broads report. I don't think I have ever read such tosh in all my life.Anyone would think that the R.S.P.B.are the only ones who care about the Broads.The Broads Authority have done a great job cleaning up the Broads.Mainly using volunteer workers.They have dredged out Broads [Barton Broad] and various rivers,maitained the banks and moorings and introduced the river patrols.Yes there is a lot to be done but years of neglect cannot be put right in a week.As I see it the R.S.P.B.would be quite happy to ban all boating for pleasure,close all pubs that did not sell home produce and ban any visitor arriving in Broadland by car.What imput have the R.S.P.B.made to Broadland? Their report also mentions ISSI. A few years ago I enquired why the caravan site at Waxham was not allowed to open until Whit and then close again early in the season.The answer I got was "It is in a Site of special interest"When I found out what the special interest was I was amazed.Twitchers were allowed on site but not joe soap.I just hope that the Broads Authority stand their ground with the R.S.P.B.John    Report

03/10/2007, 10:58 AM Scaramouche Joined on 02/04/2006 obscure Posts 1,048 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. What a slapping for John Packman. After two years of alienating the boating and yachting fraternity, The BA Chief Executive now comes under attack from another powerful lobby group - and this time it's one that he's done his very best to court and appease. Truth is, that recent events have eroded most public trust in this quakey Quango, whether it's on green, brown or sky-blue pink issues. And it's hard to see it returning. What price discussions on conserving this unique wetland environment, when the open vandalism of high speed, high noise, high risk, and high wash, wakeboarding continues unabated and in contravention of existing bye-laws?    Report

03/10/2007, 7:58 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,002 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. I fully support the protection of habitat and the animals if it is at all possible. These people are just wasting every bodies time however and preventing right action. The wetland habitats will all be gone through flooding in under 20 years. Silly narrow minded people. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

04/10/2007, 11:17 AM john Joined on 07/08/2007 Posts 1,065 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. I agree with Scary about quango's but these groups,English Nature,R.S.P.B,Broads Authority etc are supposed to sit down round the table and come up with agreed proposals.What R.S.P.B. have done is composed a proposal,shown it no one for discussion and expect it to get a 100% agreement with all of the other parties.There is plenty of room on the Broads for everyones enjoyment,albeit angling,boating or bird watching.There is a lot of flood alleviation work taking place on the Broads,but as Keith says what is the point if the Broads are going to get flooded  with sea water anyway.John    Report

05/10/2007, 8:39 AM Peter Walker Joined on 19/07/2007 Posts 16 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Three cheers for the RSPB for producing what must be the most bias report this year! Surely there are some people in this organisation who can sit down with all the interested parties and formulate a commonsense strategy rather than a public slanging match with the Broads Authority - I hope the BA keep the moral high ground and give this report the report the response it deserves, nothing.    Report

05/10/2007, 9:09 AM gardener Joined on 04/10/2007 Posts 1,051 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. I have to agree with you. The RSPB in many instances seems to exist to provide spottable sized birds that don't move around too much for its members to watch through their bincs. and I can't see much evidence of their good influence in my area. However I am not exactly pro the boats owned by huge commercial enterprises. By and large the holiday cruisers are too many, too large, are speeding and creating a great deal of wash on the stretches of river I frequent and seem to be hired by people who aren't even interested in the area they are cruising through. There are also some very dire pubs.I went to one recently that had changed hands since last summer and was embarrassed that visitors were being served vile food in an enchanting setting. The Broads are a very delicate place to manage.One little bit of publicity can upset the balance. eg the NT at Horsey, A few bits in the Times etc and in their own blurbs and suddenly the visitor numbers swell from a few locals and the odd tourist to a car park full throughout the summer.As a consequence the seals on Horsey beach are disturbed more frequently and now need a warden!    Report

05/10/2007, 9:57 AM Scaramouche Joined on 02/04/2006 obscure Posts 1,048 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. I see this as a piece of opportunism by the RSPB, or the Royal Society for the Prevention of Boating, as they'tre affectionately known. Management of the Broads was enshrined (still is) by Act of Parliament to balance the interests of nature, environment, navigation and tourism as a consensus based operation. That's why the Broad's can never become a National Park under the UK national model for such parks. Frustrated by the manner in which it saw the navigation interests as a hostile constrainment, the BA under Dr Packman has sought to diminish the effect of that interest. The result is pretty much an open split between the navigators and BA management, with the former now wishing to see Dr Packman replaced. The body corporate they are fighting over is the corpse of the new Broads Bill. Now it seems the RSPB are no longer willing to sit by and watch the scrap. They want one of Broadland's five major river systems withdrawn from the navigation (almost certainly the Thurne which controls access to Hickling and Horsey, which they long eyed as exclusively wildlife preserves). They've are a number of other demands in their surprise manifesto; some of them laudable, others, laughable. Whether you sit on the fence, or prowl either side, its now terribly clear that the Quango-led system for managing the Broads, simply isn't working.    Report

05/10/2007, 11:06 AM john Joined on 07/08/2007 Posts 1,065 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Scary.Could I pose a question? Who has vested interest in the land surrounding Hickling and Horsey? I asked English Nature for a detailed map and plans for those areas.I got a dossier 2ins.thick but of course no names of landowners.It was rumoured at  one time that a certain Supermarket Chain owner,R.S.P.B.Director and donor to a political party had vested interested in that area.I could never find out if the rumours were true or not..As far as I am concerned I have never been able to go under Potter Heigham bridge since the 60s.Someone mentioned speeding hire cruisers.Well believe me there are private owners who are not such little angels.John    Report

05/10/2007, 12:32 PM Scaramouche Joined on 02/04/2006 obscure Posts 1,048 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. John, As far as I am aware, the predominant land owner/ administrator in the Horsey area is the National Trust. I don't know about  Hickling, but I probably know who does know. I can't pass on the sources  without compromising peoples' internet pseudonyms, so leave it with me , and I'll post something when I'm sure its provenance is more than marsh-myth.    Report

05/10/2007, 5:39 PM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 1,503 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.  Scaramouche wrote: What a slapping for John Packman. After two years of alienating the boating and yachting fraternity, The BA Chief Executive now comes under attack from another powerful lobby group - and this time it's one that he's done his very best to court and appease. Truth is, that recent events have eroded most public trust in this quakey Quango, whether it's on green, brown or sky-blue pink issues. And it's hard to see it returning. What price discussions on conserving this unique wetland environment, when the open vandalism of high speed, high noise, high risk, and high wash, wakeboarding continues unabated and in contravention of existing bye-laws?   The RSPB owns lots of land were I live and has in the past liased with landowners and boat operators. This is a bad and short sighted move from a single issue pressure group, but it is as well a powerfull charity/tax write off tool to many thousands.   Why short sighted? because it is very likely that this area will be inundated with sea water for a few hundred thousands years, totally changing it to a saltwater ecology, still with birds, but somewhat uncontrollable. Their aims are lamentable, navigation rights cannot just be turned on and off, the right of way act applies as much as to water ways as it does to foot path, as far as I know, so if this waterway has been used for a period of time, I believe its twelve years, the RSPB can stand on their heads and whistle Dixie. I for one am not in support of such single minded measures, in contravention to plans of taxpaying boat operators, but I would be in support of stopping waterskiing on the Broads, that is a menace. nevermind    Report

05/10/2007, 8:46 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,002 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Dicky Birds and toads rule nevermind and will continue to do so until we are all 5 feet under water. Making plans to get out is the best bet. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

06/10/2007, 6:31 AM john Joined on 07/08/2007 Posts 1,065 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Re Nevermind.I think everyone but the R.S.P.B. would agree with your rational thinking.Like you I do not live in Norfolk but I am very passionate about the Broads and surrounding countryside.There is one almighty row going on www.norfolk-broads/forums and I believe that the Broads Authority have called a meeting in Norwich.I read a report on BBC Norfolk and it did not give any mention of opposition to the RSPB.I realise that the Broads Authority is a quango but that is all there is at the moment to protect everyones interest.It would appear that the RSPB want to close off the Thurne behond Potter Heigham bridge.It would be the same if they tried to close a section of the Thames or any other waterway.No thoughts whatsoever for anyone else.John    Report

06/10/2007, 1:23 PM keith gerrard Joined on 16/04/2004 Posts 10,002 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. I am sick to death of hearing these short sighted RSPB people droning on about how important certain habitats are for wild life and fauna on the Broads. WHY DON'T THEY WAKE UP AND REALIZE THE BLOODY PLACE IS GOING TO FLOOD WITH SEA WATER. Sorry but they really are MORONS. Flood defense and control MUST be the primary consideration and if that means finally making the place pay for itself with investment for tourism and industry, so be it. THERE IS NO CHOICE!!!!!!!!!! The RSPB is another OBN organisation that is responsible for destroying any future for East Anglia. Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk    Report

06/10/2007, 4:07 PM john Joined on 07/08/2007 Posts 1,065 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report. Quite frankly Keith,English Nature are not far behind.I think if they could find a dog rose in the sand dunes we would all be banned from going on the beach.I read the full report of the R.S.P.B.on the Broads Authority web site and it would appear that the RSPB gave a copy of their report just one week before it was published.No time to consult with other organisations just a damn you we will go alone.I am very pleased to see the massive support the Broads Authority have got on this occasion.John    Report

06/10/2007, 6:11 PM nevermind Joined on 28/05/2007 Posts 1,503 Re: R.S.P.B.Broads report.  john wrote: Re Nevermind.I think everyone but the R.S.P.B. would agree with your rational thinking.Like you I do not live in Norfolk but I am very passionate about the Broads and surrounding countryside.There is one almighty row going on www.norfolk-broads/forums and I believe that the Broads Authority have called a meeting in Norwich.I read a report on BBC Norfolk and it did not give any mention of opposition to the RSPB.I realise that the Broads Authority is a quango but that is all there is at the moment to protect everyones interest.It would appear that the RSPB want to close off the Thurne behond Potter Heigham bridge.It would be the same if they tried to close a section of the Thames or any other waterway.No thoughts whatsoever for anyone else.John I do live in Norfolk, John and the link you so readily provided must have led to some allmighty row, because, at present the internet site is not available, ha, what a coincidence, when people want to access it. This will now turn most people here locally against the RSPB, but, still they have hundreds of thousands of members who could be on their side, but live in Timbuctu or Brisbane, their letter counts for as much as ours who live locally.  I think anybody who owns a cat automatically joins the RSPB out of guilt, because the little over fed and bored critter is hunting them to the tune of ten/annum, can't see the RSPB running a campaign or arguing for 'indoor cat owning'. Further they have some dubious practises when it comes to encouraging certain types of rare beangeese habitats, but want to get rid of gulls/flying rats at the same time, they are very selective with birds and like to 'manage' them and if it means at the cost of others, so be it, quiet ruthless really.   All I am waiting now for is them jumping down my throat. Will try that link again tommorrow. nevermind      Report

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