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 08/05/2008, 3:39 PM
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AnthonyFlynn
 
Joined on 16/11/2005
South Norfolk
Posts 128
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Thanks for the reply nevermind. Forgive me, but it is not a case of withholding Taxation. The whole point is to change the system and stop paying any Direct Taxation to Westminster and the Treasury. The Taxpayer will pay his Taxation to his Parish, Town and District Council, then the money will pass on to the County Council. Westminster and the Treasury come well down the pecking order.
It will of course mean that the allocation of MPs, should be normalised or reduced to a regular number, say just four MPs to each English County, a total of 172 English MPs. Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland must make their own arrangements. Then if all the other Counties of England wish to follow this pattern, Democracy is back on the streets and in the hands of the British or English People where it belongs.
This is just an idea, I do not claim any expertise. But this is a point to start from and as long as we do not allow any "experts" to buggerit up, we should be OK. Regards, ATFlynn. "Norfolk's Mutineer"
PS. nevermind, I have an email I would like to passon. It is about the housing inflation and the possible collapse in the near future.
My usual signature is just my name, ATFlynn.
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08/05/2008, 11:51 PM
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gardener
Joined on 04/10/2007
Posts 1,371
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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I think the ability of the land to drain is a constant worry out there Keith.Since most of the water that enters the Fenland levels has to go out to sea at the Wash via one of the Witham, Welland, Nene or Ouse rivers and the water that is drained from the Fens has to be lifted by pumps into minor and then major waterways if the major rivers are unable to discharge at sea properly then the drainage of the Fens fails.So your point about sea level rise and how to tackle the impact on discharge of the rivers is fair. It is just a question of which is more appropriate, a barrage or further raising the banks of the major rivers and improving the sluice systems and constructing more sluices further downstream. If sea levels continue to rise as predicted then a barrage may be the only option as you say. You will know that the Fenland area has water draining into it from a very wide area- as far as Notts, Northants and Beds and as new flood alleviation schemes inland hurry the water downstream more quickly the Fens may become more vulnerable to flooding which would seem to make "joined up thinking" a matter of urgency. To give you an idea of how heavy rainfall affects the Fens, which are after all very low lying, I was told that 2 inches of rainfall would make the level of one particular Fenland drainage channel rise by forty inches in under two days, just by drainage from the surrounding fen, and it all has to go somewhere.
The Environment Agency wears too many hats and is more intent on raising money from drainage boards and river users than on making sure we do not lose our most important food producing area. Cameron might win a few rural votes by promising a set up more sensible than Defra/the EA/Natural England etc.
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09/05/2008, 9:02 AM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 11,194
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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To simplify the subject a little for public consumption gardener.
I think you would agree that any increase in sea level, increases the risk of inland fresh water flooding, as well as the risk to coastline breaches. The reduced efficiency of the river system to drain into the sea ensures this.
As you point out gardener, the river system extends through out the country, so every one is effected in one way or another.
IMO this danger should motivate a huge effort to at least model the problem and conclude some educated projections for the future.
Cambridge University would be my first choice for funding to build such a model and other specialists should also be involved.
The country and East Anglia in particular needs answers and soon.
What about it Keith Stimpson, Norman Lamb?
Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk
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09/05/2008, 10:15 AM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,704
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Thanks Anthony, forgive me calling you a tax fiddler, I meant it in a positive way. A decentralised tax system can only work with a change in the way we elect our reps, don't you think?
I would make them accountable to local people and give electors the power to deselect them.
For that, powers have to be decentralised in England as they have partially in Scotland and Wales.
I , as much as you, don't like to see scottish politicians making decisions that do not apply for Scotland alone, they have no mandate here.
Back to the subject of paying local taxes for sea defenses, there must be way of expressing no confidence in ministers and the treasury and allocate a sum to these local and urgent needs, especially with the Coputy councils, as yet unspecified, support in this matter. nevermind
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09/05/2008, 12:07 PM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 11,194
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Re directing moneys in local areas to flood defense, instead of giving it to non elected bodies with dreams of a green Utopia populated by rare dicky birds is essential nevermind.
However the problems of flooding are National and there should be national co ordination on the issue.
The present government departments have to many hats and not enough accountability.
Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk
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09/05/2008, 5:25 PM
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AnthonyFlynn
Joined on 16/11/2005
South Norfolk
Posts 128
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Keith, only a short time back, six or eight weeks, I came across a report about the sea level and the extent of the annual rise. Now, hang on to your hollyhocks everybody, the North Sea is rising by TWO MILLIMETRE'S each year. That is two, one thousandths of a metre a year. The first question to ask is, how the Bl**** hell do they measure a moving mass of water to arrive at such a precise and miniscule answer???
To me, it is the same as Global Warming, and all the other crap that has increased the cost of my Electric Bill, from £361, a year in 2005/6, to just on £1000 now. Just a great big Political Confidence Trick, to get more of your money into the Treasury. Enough already. I'll let you all know when the County allows us to call for a Public Meeting so that all those that want to attend, can.
I'm hoping that the Employers turn up, to ask what is needed to avoid Westminsters Direct Taxation. Oh! By the way, all those power lines that cross Norfolk, and all those water pipes, gas pipes and any other of these foreign service Companies, should the not pay Norfolk County a small charge for the freeway and access??? I'm sure it would go a long way to reducing Council Tax. It might even cancel out the need for Pensioners to pay any Council Tax. But that thought is for another day. Regards, ATFlynn. "Norfolk's Mutineer"
My usual signature is just my name, ATFlynn.
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09/05/2008, 10:53 PM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 11,194
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Thats alright then Anthony.
So the Thames barrier is just a pretty Art project then?
I suppose the plans to build a bigger one because the present one in now inadequate are also just for show?
I don't think Jill will agree with your complacency but then Walcott didn't flood did it?
Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk
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10/05/2008, 8:53 AM
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AnthonyFlynn
Joined on 16/11/2005
South Norfolk
Posts 128
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Thanks for the reply Keith. Could I ask you if you are familiar with the EU programme of Autumn sowing of some crops to allow for an earlier harvest, remembering that most crops are of a twelve week period when natural growing times are observed.
But to gain two or three weeks on the market, you can have harvesting a little early in the June/July period and gain on price if quality is good. To achieve this, the "experts" at the EU and MAFF, paid out billions of GBP£, to pay farmers to install drainage to arable land and plant spring crops in September, October, November. And as you have by now guessed, this is the cause of all this spring and summer flooding we now see.
It used to take ten and more days for rainwater to drain into ditches the get into the water courses and down to the rivers. Now it happens that the water gets down to the river while it is still falling. Don't take my word for it. Ask the EDP, to fish out of the archives, the story of the Fishing Clubs, that complained about the changes in River Maintenance and how the rivers flooded that summer. It was on the boarder between Cambridge and Norfolk at Redgrave Fen. At the time, there were many Fishing Clubs who also warned of flooding, right across the south of England.
I mentioned it yesterday, Peter Mandleson is trying a stich-up on Agriculture, again, and he has been making very dire warnings about Europe and America finding an arrangement with the rest of the world Food Supplies. The man want to blackmail the Americans and the People of Europe. We, those two continents, are going to have to subsidise Africa and most of the rest of the worlds food supply. That is the Plan.
Enough for now. Regards, ATFlynn. "Norfolk's Mutineet"
My usual signature is just my name, ATFlynn.
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10/05/2008, 9:03 AM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 11,194
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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That is the worst case of reversed logic I have read on flooding.
It makes absolutely no difference how the fresh water river system drains.
Your comments do nothing to explain the Thames barrier or plans to build a bigger higher version.
Your argument supports the case for sea level rise exactly.
If extra drainage is provided then the fresh water can flow faster to the lower reaches of the river system it is true.
The reason it floods in these areas is because of the tidal effects, preventing easy drainage to the sea.
It is sea level rise that makes this flooding worse.
Dream on keithgerrard@gerrard24.freeserve.co.uk
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12/05/2008, 3:15 PM
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Scaramouche
Joined on 02/04/2006
obscure
Posts 1,353
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Ah Keith -
I do believe that you have discovered a soul-mate.
But surely, confidences such as these need to be exchanged with discretion, lest the OBN strike?
---------------------------------------------------------------
My normal signature signifies other peoples' pretentions
Confusing, isn't it?
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12/05/2008, 5:11 PM
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keith gerrard
Joined on 16/04/2004
Posts 11,194
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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12/05/2008, 5:16 PM
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Scaramouche
Joined on 02/04/2006
obscure
Posts 1,353
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Aaaaaaaaah!
Not my unrestricted email address!
Keith - you wouldn't?
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13/05/2008, 8:49 AM
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nevermind
Joined on 28/05/2007
Posts 1,704
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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Today EDP carries an announcement for a meeting on Southwold pier, 13.June, to formulate a united strategy to ministers, the Environment agency and MP's behind flood proptection schemes.
Guy Mcgregor, the Blyth estuary coordiantor said"“We have put up a robust opposition and we don't believe that the Environment Agency has looked at all the options. If we put up a powerful case we hope the politicians will answer us.”
Hope that politicians will answer us? is that all there is left for us, hope that elected reps and servants are listening? How about raising funds for sea protection ourselves and undertake the work necessarry?
If the Government Environment Agency and all and sundry want to 'manage retreat', then we ought to tell them to step aside from their waning responsibilities and let others come to the fore and help themselves.
But that would be reflected in the regions tax take, they have to expect to pay their part if they want to keep their responsibilities over the land they so readily want to let go.
Further, as discussed earlier here, these issues are linked and the debate over Fenland protection with a wash barrier is part and parcel of the debate. There are proposals for a private and amicable environmentally sound barrier to be build, except for wildlife groups opposing it, there is considerable support from those who live in the Fens.
What will the Blyth estuary grouyps say when the interest of wildlife groups clash with the protection of their property?
I shall be going to this event, but as the news moves on, many have already forgotten that one day they might wake up with wet feet, unless off course, you live on a boat, like Wibble. nevermind
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13/05/2008, 10:43 AM
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john
Joined on 07/08/2007
Posts 1,213
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Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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I t is the hidden agendas of the wildlife groups that you have to worry about Nevermind.Their agendas are only revealed by leaked documents at secret meetings.I doubt if any representitive from the R.S.P.B.will be present at any public meeting.John
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EDP24 Forums » EDP24 General » News » Re: Shoreline Management - a threat to the Broads?
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